Well, here it is Friday and I’m finally posting the Open House reports for Saturday and Sunday. At least I’m getting better about not waiting three weeks before things get posted up. This has been a busy week, so not much time for posting.
So, two open houses this past weekend, one on Saturday and one on Sunday. Both of them were interesting, but not really in a good way.
21 Cameron Ave
- MLS# 2170796 – Zillow Page
- Ask $499,000
- 5 bedrooms – 2.5 bath
- Taxes: $11,112 – Village Taxes: $1,342.70
Surprisingly, we liked this house a lot more than we thought we would. It’s an odd home, both odd looking and oddly laid out. It very poor curb appeal, with its blue-gray painted cement and the flat, jumbled up architecture. The house kinda looks like two houses stuck together with a little join piece in the middle.
The main area of the house is open floor plan. There are no walls or dividers between the living room, dining room and kitchen. The kitchen is against the far wall and is nicely updated. The living room area is big and spacious with nice hardwood floors.
A few steps up and set of french doors separate the master suite from the open plan area. The master bedroom is fairly small with decent closets. The master bathroom is nicely tiled, floor to ceiling. There’s a steam shower and a big spa tub. The fixtures are European, a little different than their American counterparts, but there’s one thing missing from this master suite…a wall. There is no wall or divider between the master bedroom and the master bath. There a little nook for the toilet to give some privacy, but no door or screen. This takes the open floor plan concept way too far, in my opinion.
There are four more bedrooms, all of moderate or small size. One on the same side as the master and three more on the other side of the house, stacked up on top of each other. There’s a bottom floor bedroom, a top floor bedroom and a “mezzanine” level bedroom. There’s another bath on this side of the house too, tiled in the same style as the master, with euro fixtures and a small urinal as an added bonus. That’s right, a urinal.
There’s no backyard, per se. Just like the other Cameron house we looked at, this one is backed up to Railroad Ave. There’s just a few feet from the back door to the back fence and Railroad Ave is only a foot or so behind that. Unlike 35 Cameron, however, there’s a significant amount of side yard space that could be put to good use with a proper fence.
We did really like this house and I could see us living there if the price was right. There’s plenty of room inside for us and our things, although there’s very little in the way of raw storage space since there’s no basement or attic area for that.
33 Mason Ave
- MLS# —- – Zillow Page
- Ask $399,900
- 3 bedrooms – 1 bath
- Taxes: $5,628.23 – Village Taxes: $508.50
It’s funny that Debra and I walked into this house and both of us immediately got the impression that the place was similar to our Grandmother’s place. Obviously we have different Grandmothers, so it’s a bit of oddness…or maybe not.
By the way, this one isn’t on MLS as of this writing. I only found the house because I saw the Coach Realtors sign as I was driving home from work.
There are only two words for this place, old and tiny. Nothing on this house has been touched probably since Eisenhower was president. I peeked into the utility room and the burner was this giant, iron, monstrosity that was probably older than me. The realtor said that it was likely a coal conversion, hence the little door on the front. I’ve never seen anything like it.
The first floor has a small kitchen, a small living room, a utility room and a laundry room. There’s a small table crammed into the kitchen, but other than that there’s no place to actually sit down and eat.
Upstairs there’s a neat, little landing at the top of the stairs, a tiny master and two microscopic other bedrooms. The bathroom is also small and also dates back to the 50’s.
The house needs major repair and renovation, a new heating system, new roof, kitchen, bath and that’s just for starters. Problem is that even if you did all that, you’d be left with a nicely updated, but still tiny and barely usable house. Since the house is backed up almost to the property line, you couldn’t really expand out the back. You might be able to add a piece on to the front of the house to get more space, but it hardly seems worth it.
It’s too bad, because it’s a cute, little, Dutch colonial. It’s got a lot of charm. But I can’t see anyone buying this house to actually live in unless they’re desperate. But I don’t know that the numbers really work out for buying the property, knocking down the house and building a new one.
Thanks for your continued reports on open houses – it’s an eye opener! I have the opportunity to do a lot of comparison shopping of real estate in other parts of the country and remain amazed at the low value to house price that Long Island offers. These two open houses typify what a poor selection of housing is available in Babylon Village at what is considered an entry price point. Obviously the housing correction is not substantial enough in this area to put these types of properties in line with a reasonable market value.
I would imagine that these types of homes are more suitable for knock downs. That is not a viable option for entry level buyers, of course, but it will at least substantiate a higher price given the resulting higher level of quality and living space.
It’s really the only way to recycle old, worn, dysfunctional properties that are past the state where a remodel can salvage them.
33 Mason- Tiny and old is right! At first sight, the burner looks 30 yrs older than the house! I saw on the sign in sheet that there were plenty of visitors that learned of the open house because of this site.
hey all..might be a rainy saturday. high ranch on Ketewamoke dropped the price..nice house for the block. 33 Mason as predicted was a bomb on a nice lot. hopefully the bickering has stopped and we’re back to talking about all the great spots in town. noticing a few dumpsters here and there maybe some preps for sale.
Gary, did you see the “talking house” on litchfield just off pine st?
I still wouldn’t pay $479K for that house on Ketewamoke. It’s just a modest, high ranch and I don’t really like high ranches to begin with.
By the way, has anyone seen that house on Cedar. It’s so cheap. I wonder why nobody’s bitten on it yet.
The house on Cedar will wind up being a good deal for someone – when it dropped to “299-$325” I told my wife we should sell our house and buy that one – would be nice to live basically mortgage-free these days
Forgot to mention that the “for sale” at Cedar is no longer out front but is now leaning against the side of the house…
The house you previously hinted would be for sale on The Crescent has a sign out. Saw it this morning.
It will be interesting to see how quickly the house sells, and at what price. Zero condition issues, well maintained, a great rear yard and location, location, location.
For all the handwringing that goes on about “unrealistic sellers” in general, and on this blog in particular, this house will serve as a referendum on how reasonable and sophisticated the current buyer market is out there (or whether that is oxymoronic).
For a serious buyer that has looked around at what’s available (i.e., a family that can actually afford to pay $459,000 for a home somewhere and is willing to do so; lookers, lurkers and wannabes need not apply), it should be a no-brainer to pull the trigger on this one.
What’s the address? I don’t see it on MLSLI.
Address is 90 Crescent Ave – not sure why it isn’t on MLSLI but I do see some of the details on the Westcott Group website.
If you google “90 Crescent, Babylon” it shows up a church- I think maybe a mormon church. It would be fun to see what kind of mail you’d get when you’d move in.
Here’s the listing for 90 the Crescent from Georgia Westcott
It seems like there are a fair number of exclusive listings at this point in time. More than a couple houses aren’t on MLSLI at all. Odd.
Zero Front yard..it’s all back yard..luckily they removed the circular drive. But…I have to agree..location location location. And that thru the wall A/C out the front of the house…barf. Village Golf course is open…9 Bucks. Just walked off. Happy Easter/Passover to all.
Cedar Street is a troubled property…at that price, one would think it’s a candidate for a knock down and rebuild BUT the zoning laws are going to require massive variances…it’s current footprint precludes a rebuild on the same site and the current setback laws would likely preclude the building of a home that warrants the cost of land + building. Even the builders in town have no interst in this one, it seems – even for the cost of the land.
Inside, the place is a shambles…kitchen ok but the rest of the house is really a wreck…wouldn’t trust the infrastructure at all….
Looked at it for possible investment property but I couldn’t in all good faith even rent it in its current condition
To Don Candelora post re The Cresecent
As one of the more vocifereous critcs of unrealistic sellers, I agree with you on this one! Needs kitchen update but location, size, condition and price on this one justifies the price…I think we’ll see it move quickly and will perhaps provide a benchmark comp for future listings in the $425k – $500k price range
A great curb appeal split just went up on the dead end of washington street. Looks like a nicely kept place..new roof, siding, windows..backs up to state property. Worth a look. 109 washington..asking 499
FYI for all you folks incorrectly referring to that house as Cedar Street….the correct address..since I was the paperboy there is 155 Cooper St. Before my time, the LIRR ran on the ground and the intersection wasn’t there.
For a serious buyer that has looked around at what’s available (i.e., a family that can actually afford to pay $459,000 for a home somewhere and is willing to do so; lookers, lurkers and wannabes need not apply), it should be a no-brainer to pull the trigger on this one.
Let’s do the math. 2000 census data reports that the median household annual income in Babylon village was just under $70,000 in 1999 dollars. If we assume that incomes kept pace with the CPI (big assumption, considering how many people were living off their house ATM), that scales to just under $89,000 in 2009 dollars (http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl). Of that, dedicate 28% to PITI, just shy of $25,000 per year, or $2,075 per month. Taxes at $13,000, roughly another $1,000 per year for insurance cuts $1,165 out of that $2,075, leaving $910 for P&I. Even at today’s artificially low mortgage rates, I’ll be generous and use 4.5%, that only supports a $180,000 mortgage. If that is 80% Loan-to-Value, the sale price is $225,000.
Getting more aggressive, and let the median family buyer stretch to 35%? All of the increase goes to P&I, raising it to $1,430, making the mortgage $282,000 on a sale price of $352,000. Sellers are asking more than $100,000 in excess of that.
If they get as much as 90% of their wishing price ($415,000), using the aggressive scenario (35% of income to housing), a buyer has to put $83,000 down, and have a family income of $97,500.
That hypothetical roughly six-figure income family gets only 3 bedrooms, no basement, no family room, and unknown square footage (if the selling agent didn’t list the number, it can’t be good). Yeah, just keep thinking that those buyers sitting on their wallets are nothing but ‘wannabe’s’. The only trigger relevant to a deal at that price is the one on the gun held to the buyer’s head.
MLS report indicates GLA of 1,750 SF.
Also shows 30 sales in BV over the last year in the $450k-$550k range.
And one more statistic: Newsday reports Nick Swisher’s ERA is 0.00.
Anon, thanks for crunching the numbers.
Does anyone around here feel that the prices will ever fall to where they “should” be? Or will we just have to suck it up and figure out where we’re most willing to overpay to live?
Newsday also reports that the Mets now want Swisher to help solve their bullpen woes.
I doubt we’ll see $150K for a three bedroom cape ever again.
I’m confident that they were selling even higher than $450-550k the year before that; thus establishing the current trend. Besides, if statistics don’t really matter, what value is a comp, anyway?
Are they ever going to get down to where they “should be”? I don’t expect that a median income will buy the most desirable property. My example above was based on median income. By definition, half make more, and can afford more. Some of those half will congregate around village centers. I had just presumed that, based on the people I know who make more than the median income, they’re want more value for their excess spending than what that 90 Crescent example offers. Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.
I’d also expect that the seller is aware and appreciates that they are pricing their offering where far less than half the population can afford to buy it (only about 15% of the population is more than 1 std. deviation above the mean; only 2.5% is more than 2 SD above). When you consider what a small family buying a small starter house like that can afford (income distribution skews towards older earners making more), they are eliminating even more of the buyer pool than those that can afford to pay $460,000.
To top it all off, when a sales agent makes a sales pitch like ‘if you don’t pay this price, you’re a wannabe’, even more buyers are alienated. The last time I heard that sort of closing maneuver, the object in question was in fact a used car. I didn’t buy that one either.
Sounds like this crowd thinks selling price of a home should be at least partially based on a demographic’s ability to pay…just doesn’t work that way folks. Bottom line, those who can’t afford to live here will need to live elsewhere; those who can afford it but don’t want to pay for it, will choose to live elsewhere. When there is not enough of the of those who can afford it and who choose to live here, prices will drop. Given 30 transactions in the $450-$550k range, clearly the buyers have voted with their $$ – the only vote that counts. paradigm. You may disparage their choice but those who are the folks who are maintaining the keeping the property values high in Babylon – a good thing, by the way.
Median income doesn’t mean much. Lots of older retired homeowners in BV, on fixed incomes, bring the meidian down. Also, not everyone buying in BV already lives in Babylon Village.
Crescent?
Overpriced and with 13K in taxes. Serious water damage in the garage roof (under the bathroom). Bathrooms basically trashed. And a dehumidifier pretty much hooked up to a sump pump in the basement.
This is considered a deal? Maybe I should be looking in West Islip.
Well, it’s a little hard to believe that the pastors and their families that have lived in the house for the past 11 years would not at some point have mentioned that “the bathrooms are trashed and there’s serious water damage in the garage roof”, especially considering that a squeaking door has generally been enough to send out an alarm to the Buildings and Grounds Committee to run down there with a can of 3-in-1 oil. Property is currently tax exempt for Town of Babylon purposes; one would have to check with one’s lawyer as to have happens when the exemption expires (next March, I believe) and in the interim.
Price-to-Income ratio has a long track record. Nationally, from 1980 through 2000, including the real-estate bust that precipitated the Savings and Loan failures, it has remaind remarkably steady within a range centered slightly above 3x; considering just New York, centered on 4x over that same time frame. (source, Harvard Joint Center for Housing Studies (JCHS), The State of the Nation’s Housing 2008 — persuse the data at your leisure, http://www.jchs.harvard.edu/son/index.htm)
By 2006, the ratio for New York had risen above 7x. Others can choose to believe that housing prices have nothing to do with the ability of the people who live in them to afford to pay, I do not. The ability to pay 7x income as compared to 3.3x income was enabled solely by unsustainable financing tools (Inerest-Only; Artificially low introductory rates; Adjustable Rates; Negative Amortization; little-to-no-money-down piggyback loan packages; any or all alone or in combination), which are now no longer widely available.
Are you proposing that overpriced houses are good/right/justified because rich people are flocking to Babylon, while the poor (~$90k median income) plebes who are there already simply have to pick up and leave? Does that sound like a good plan for long-term community stability? I think not.
The truth comes out. It’s a great deal because the church needs the money. It’s a good location, but the place is a bit dated.
Gary…look at the Washington St. house, more bang for your buck, and a dead end street for the kids.
I’ll probably check out the Washington house this weekend. I have to say that I don’t really love it. It’s kind of an odd-looking house, has no basement and it’s a little out of my price range.
Right on Southards Pond area is a neat plus, although I could see how that could be a negative as well.
Gary..I have been in several of those houses over the years…they are splits with stairs all over the place..the boiler room was in a small basement area…this one has the room next to the garage which serves as a den…it is partially below grade.
No disrespect Don, I just thought the place was a little old, especially after going to some of the other open houses. Old bathrooms and an old kitchen, no matter how big the bedrooms are or how quietly the doors close, make the place look dated. I absolutely loved it and would take it in a hot second. The location is absolutely great, though that is stating the obvious…
I mean, it’s not as bad as Mason Ave, but it ain’t no Park Ave.
I’d grab Crescent if I could, but I’m just an educator married to another educator, so with mortgage, taxes, flood insurance, a kitchen and two bathrooms to update, it’s out of our league.
Just like Mason, some rich dude is going to make out like a bandit.
34 S. Carll Ave..historic home of one of our former mayors. Great property over 200′ deep but expect to do a LOT of updates. 529K for this 1890 oldie.
Redwing:
Not to worry – I don’t find “a little old” or “a bit dated” offensive. They actually pretty well describe me and most of my family and friends, so what the hell.
Since I’m not someone in the market to buy a house, it really doesn’t matter what I think. What you think does matter, if you’re intending to buy somewhere. But…
The kitchen and baths are functioning just fine (to my knowledge), and appear to be likely to continue to do so. They are not modern, although both the kitchen and the upper level bath were remodeled in 1999+/-. The glass enclosure for the upper bathroom shower could use replacement, a minor job.
This may brand me as a bad husband and father, but if I moved my family into that house tomorrow, with the facilities that exist there, I would expect all of us to do just fine accomplishing our daily, shall I say, functions, without issue or objection. And to do so for the foreseeable future. When I think of basically trashed bathrooms, or needs a new kitchen, I’m thinking immediate coin out of pocket.
Outside the actual number of them (must have two for a family), the whole bathroom thing kind of escapes me, anyway. Most of what goes on in them is rather inglorious, so, you know, do what you gotta do, and get out.
Many of the reports I read here about the open houses have a litany of issues or say things like “really needs a lot of work”, or “have to put a lot of money in”, or “way too much money for what it needs”, etc. I just don’t see that as the case here but like I said, I’m not buying, so my opinion doesn’t count.
And no need to apologize for stating the obvious about its “absolutely great” location; it definitely is a sweet spot.
Open house this weekend per MLSLI.
Do your worst.
I’m going to see the house on The Crescent tomorrow, but to be honest I don’t see what’s so great about being on The Crescent. Yes, there are huge, gorgeous historical houses on that street, but this ain’t one of them. And it’s a fairly busy road as it’s the main outlet for that area of Babylon. I ran through that area every day for years (and will again) and I can tell you that cars whip along The Crescent at a high rate of speed. I wouldn’t let a young kid ride a bike along there, much less play in the street. The side roads along there are nice, but The Crescent itself? It’s not a premium, in my opinion.
And, Don, while you may not want to update an otherwise functional kitchen or bath, the value of a home is directly tied to how updated the kitchen and bath(s) are. They’re only a few of many factors, but they’re important ones. Many people in the business say that “kitchens sell houses.” And I believe it.